Issue 3443

Title
Product module should add a Configuration menu entry
Priority
feature
Status
resolved
Nosy list
SISalp, albertca, ced, jesteve, resteve, roundup-bot
Assigned to
ced
Keywords
review

Created on 2013-10-26.18:23:27 by albertca, last changed 58 months ago by roundup-bot.

Files

File name Uploaded Type Details
unnamed resteve, 2013-10-27.22:34:54 text/plain view

Messages

New changeset d6627d77087c by C?dric Krier in branch 'default':
Add configuration for default use category's accounts and taxes
http://hg.tryton.org/modules/account_product/rev/d6627d77087c
New changeset 8f9c3b7f98c7 by C?dric Krier in branch 'default':
Add configuration for default cost price method
http://hg.tryton.org/modules/product/rev/8f9c3b7f98c7
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2016-01-07.20:06:32
As explained the product configuration has meaning for the cost method, so here is review23711002 that adds it.
Also it could be a company rules to define by default the accounting properties at the category level, so here is review17731003 that could make it default.
Author: [hidden] (SISalp)
Date: 2013-10-29.11:23:10
hello,
jumping in this discussion in which I find many interesting points.
I agree on :
- product codes are, sometimes, to be proposed by the system and in some
recommendations include a sequence
- flexible default values are something I miss on many creations, not only products.

On the other hand, I understand (I think) Cedric's push-back. I personally don't
believe spreading configuration menus in different functions is enough to
address a more general requirement. Looks like a quick fix, which would be ok
for a custom module, but not for the core product (I may be wrong anyway, still
open to arguments).

Imho this point is so important that is should be a topic on next TUB.
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-28.20:53:17
My main concern about this feature request is that it push the product module
into the wrong direction.
Despite that there is only the «cost method» that could be a valid argument
because most of the case it must be the same for all the company with the
moderation that it is more a accounting parameter than a product configuration.

When I say wrong direction I mean the current product design is not really right
because it is a collection of different group of properties like accounting,
stock, purchase etc. All those properties should be filled by the right
authorized person and there should be a state (or many) on the product that
define when it can be used (link in many2one). So in such design any field
should be required until it goes to the next state and so having default value
has no sense.
Author: [hidden] (jesteve)
Date: 2013-10-28.17:46:37
On 26/10/13 20:21, Cédric Krier wrote:
> Cédric Krier <cedric.krier@b2ck.com> added the comment:
>
> On 26/10/13 19:42 +0200, Jordi Esteve wrote:
>> On 26/10/13 19:35, Cédric Krier wrote:
>>> On 26/10/13 19:17 +0200, Jordi Esteve wrote:
>>>> For example to configure the default values for creating products, like product
>>>> type, UoM,
>>> Those sounds like bad practice.
>> The same practice like defining the launguage party in party configuration.
> It is not the same. The language on the Party define how the company
> will communicate with it. It is logical to have a default one.

Why a company will have a default language to communicate with a party? 
Your argument is not solid.

In multilingual communities this is not valid. For example, in Barcelona 
it is common that a company uses Catalan to communicate with some 
parties and Spanish to communicate with others. Using a language instead 
another could be an ugly mistake.

> For product type, we are talking about something else. Indeed I even
> think it should not have a default value at all to force user to define
> it explicitly.

Like the previous example of default language party, it depends of the 
company. Some companies have the same type of products, so why no define 
it as a default value?

This issue is for adding a "Configuration" menu inside products. Me, 
Albert and Raimon have explain some examples for using it, like defining 
default values. Product default values could be, depending of the company:

* Product type
* Product sequence
* Cost method (cost method field is defined in product module, not 
account module).
* UoM
* Make accounting information (accounts and/or taxes) come from category

If a company has different values in the previous fields, then better 
left empty these default values. But if a company has the same value in 
some of the previous fields, then better define them in product 
configuration. So all companies could be happy. Of course the product 
configuration must only be modified by privileged members.

-- 
Jordi Esteve
Consultor Zikzakmedia SL
jesteve@zikzakmedia.com
Mòbil 679 170 693

Zikzakmedia SL
Dr. Fleming, 28, baixos
08720 Vilafranca del Penedès
Tel 93 890 2108
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-28.10:17:20
On 28/10/13 09:59 +0100, Raimon Esteve wrote:
> 
> 2013/10/26 Cédric Krier <issue_tracker@tryton.org>:
> > This one should be defined in Account configuration.
> 
> You could install product module without account modules.

This is a stupid answer.

-- 
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric.krier@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Author: [hidden] (resteve)
Date: 2013-10-28.09:59:10
2013/10/26 Cédric Krier <issue_tracker@tryton.org>:
> This one should be defined in Account configuration.

You could install product module without account modules.
Author: [hidden] (resteve)
Date: 2013-10-28.09:57:48
>> Who decide mean of "stupid things"?
> People who doesn't provide valid arguments.

... and who decide is a valid argument or not?

Please, there aren't a unique and valid process to manage a company.
For example, about sequence product code is a example process in a
company. Other company use other process. Or other example is about
watch dog stock.
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-28.09:49:07
On 28/10/13 09:33 +0100, Raimon Esteve wrote:
> > We don't care if company does stupid things, we don't have to support
> > it.
> 
> Who decide mean of "stupid things"?

People who doesn't provide valid arguments.

-- 
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric.krier@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Author: [hidden] (resteve)
Date: 2013-10-28.09:33:58
> We don't care if company does stupid things, we don't have to support
> it.

Who decide mean of "stupid things"?
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-27.23:58:39
On 27/10/13 22:34 +0100, Raimon Esteve wrote:
> > It sounds very strange to define a default product code.
> 
> Some companies use it. Need a unique code and is internal. Not important
> what code/number is. Available product_sequence module in bitbucket

We don't care if company does stupid things, we don't have to support
it.

-- 
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric.krier@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Author: [hidden] (resteve)
Date: 2013-10-27.22:34:55
> It sounds very strange to define a default product code.

Some companies use it. Need a unique code and is internal. Not important
what code/number is. Available product_sequence module in bitbucket
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-27.17:43:31
On 27/10/13 17:37 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> Albert Cervera i Areny <albert@nan-tic.com> added the comment:
> 
> 2013/10/27 Cédric Krier <issue_tracker@tryton.org>:
> >
> > Cédric Krier <cedric.krier@b2ck.com> added the comment:
> >
> > On 27/10/13 17:30 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> >> 2013/10/27 Cédric Krier <issue_tracker@tryton.org>:
> >> >
> >> > Cédric Krier <cedric.krier@b2ck.com> added the comment:
> >> >
> >> > On 27/10/13 09:21 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> >> >> The one I had in mind is "Defining a sequence to be used as a default product code".
> >> >
> >> > It sounds very strange to define a default product code.
> >>
> >> Well, that's what some companies do :)
> >
> > Perhaps but it is useless.
> 
> Why? It is like creating codes for parties...

Because party is not something the company manage instead of the
product.
If a company gives just a sequential number to product code then it
doesn't need a product code. At least if something should be automatic,
it should have the design of a wizard to help user to generate the next
code for the specific product (generally taking the type, the category
etc.)

-- 
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric.krier@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Author: [hidden] (albertca) Tryton committer
Date: 2013-10-27.17:37:08
2013/10/27 Cédric Krier <issue_tracker@tryton.org>:
>
> Cédric Krier <cedric.krier@b2ck.com> added the comment:
>
> On 27/10/13 17:30 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
>> 2013/10/27 Cédric Krier <issue_tracker@tryton.org>:
>> >
>> > Cédric Krier <cedric.krier@b2ck.com> added the comment:
>> >
>> > On 27/10/13 09:21 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
>> >> The one I had in mind is "Defining a sequence to be used as a default product code".
>> >
>> > It sounds very strange to define a default product code.
>>
>> Well, that's what some companies do :)
>
> Perhaps but it is useless.

Why? It is like creating codes for parties...
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-27.17:31:55
On 27/10/13 17:30 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> 2013/10/27 Cédric Krier <issue_tracker@tryton.org>:
> >
> > Cédric Krier <cedric.krier@b2ck.com> added the comment:
> >
> > On 27/10/13 09:21 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> >> The one I had in mind is "Defining a sequence to be used as a default product code".
> >
> > It sounds very strange to define a default product code.
> 
> Well, that's what some companies do :)

Perhaps but it is useless.

-- 
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric.krier@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Author: [hidden] (albertca) Tryton committer
Date: 2013-10-27.17:30:13
2013/10/27 Cédric Krier <issue_tracker@tryton.org>:
>
> Cédric Krier <cedric.krier@b2ck.com> added the comment:
>
> On 27/10/13 09:21 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
>> The one I had in mind is "Defining a sequence to be used as a default product code".
>
> It sounds very strange to define a default product code.

Well, that's what some companies do :)
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-27.09:45:54
On 27/10/13 09:21 +0100, Albert Cervera i Areny wrote:
> The one I had in mind is "Defining a sequence to be used as a default product code".

It sounds very strange to define a default product code.

> But it is probable that we're also asked to "Defining default value to make 
> accounting information come from category" because sometimes people who create the 
> product haven't got a clue what accounting is.

It doesn't really need to have a configuration for that, it is just
customization.

-- 
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric.krier@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Author: [hidden] (albertca) Tryton committer
Date: 2013-10-27.09:21:06
The one I had in mind is "Defining a sequence to be used as a default product code".

But it is probable that we're also asked to "Defining default value to make 
accounting information come from category" because sometimes people who create the 
product haven't got a clue what accounting is.
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-26.20:21:13
On 26/10/13 19:42 +0200, Jordi Esteve wrote:
> On 26/10/13 19:35, Cédric Krier wrote:
> > On 26/10/13 19:17 +0200, Jordi Esteve wrote:
> >> For example to configure the default values for creating products, like product
> >> type, UoM,
> > Those sounds like bad practice.
> 
> The same practice like defining the launguage party in party configuration.

It is not the same. The language on the Party define how the company
will communicate with it. It is logical to have a default one.
For product type, we are talking about something else. Indeed I even
think it should not have a default value at all to force user to define
it explicitly.

-- 
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric.krier@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Author: [hidden] (jesteve)
Date: 2013-10-26.19:42:46
On 26/10/13 19:35, Cédric Krier wrote:
> On 26/10/13 19:17 +0200, Jordi Esteve wrote:
>> For example to configure the default values for creating products, like product
>> type, UoM,
> Those sounds like bad practice.

The same practice like defining the launguage party in party configuration.

In bussines with different types of products, or parties with diferent 
languages, it could be a bad practice (then better to left empty these 
default values). But in other bussines having the same type of products 
or the same language for parties could be Ok.
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-26.19:35:11
On 26/10/13 19:17 +0200, Jordi Esteve wrote:
> For example to configure the default values for creating products, like product
> type, UoM,

Those sounds like bad practice.

> cost method,

This one should be defined in Account configuration.

-- 
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric.krier@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
Author: [hidden] (jesteve)
Date: 2013-10-26.19:17:34
For example to configure the default values for creating products, like product
type, UoM, cost method, ... Like in parties, there is a configuration menu to
define default values like party sequence or party language.

See for example this generic module to store default values for creating products:

https://bitbucket.org/zikzakmedia/trytond-product_configuration
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2013-10-26.18:35:21
Could you give an example?
Author: [hidden] (albertca) Tryton committer
Date: 2013-10-26.18:23:25
It is usual to need to add configuration options that should go to Product / 
Configuration. Currently product module does not provide that menu entry nor 
product.configuration model but it seems it is not very appropriate that other 
module add it.

Just like the case that the sale module adds an empty tab to party.party form I 
think product module should add a product.configuration model and menu entry.
History
Date User Action Args
2016-01-21 10:38:43roundup-botsetmessages: + msg23865
2016-01-21 10:37:47roundup-botsetstatus: testing -> resolved
nosy: + roundup-bot
messages: + msg23864
2016-01-07 20:15:19reviewbotsetreviews: 17731003 -> 17731003,23711002
2016-01-07 20:15:09reviewbotsetreviews: 17731003
keyword: + review
2016-01-07 20:06:33cedsetstatus: chatting -> testing
assignedto: ced
component: + product, account_product
messages: + msg23601
type: feature request
2013-10-29 11:23:10SISalpsetnosy: + SISalp
messages: + msg14470
2013-10-28 20:53:18cedsetnosy: + ced
messages: + msg14467
2013-10-28 17:46:38jestevesetmessages: + msg14464
2013-10-28 11:49:09cedsetnosy: - ced
2013-10-28 10:17:21cedsetmessages: + msg14463

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