Issue 9523

can't enter invoice for continued education to 6333/791 (pcg français)
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Created on 2020-08-06.10:18:01 by risto3, last changed 7 days ago by ced.


Author: [hidden] (risto3)
Date: 2020-08-06.15:01:26
my goodness! I have been informed by a very reliable source that there are cases where non OPCO invoices can and should be accounted in 6333., namely when the operation is legally deductable from the required expenses for continued education.

The reference (Art. 946-63 du règlement ANC n°2014-03 relatif au plan comptable général):
Les versements à fonds perdus ou subventions au titre des taxes et participations assises sur les salaires
sont enregistrés au débit du compte 633 "Impôts, taxes et versements assimilés sur rémunérations
(autres organismes)" aux diverses subdivisions concernées, intitulées :
 Participation des employeurs à l'effort de construction lorsqu'il s'agit de versements à fonds perdus ;
 Participation des employeurs à la formation professionnelle continue lorsque les dépenses sont libératoires ;
 Versements libératoires ouvrant droit à l'exonération de la taxe d'apprentissage.
Les autres dépenses ayant le caractère de charges figurent dans les comptes de charges concernés de la classe 6.
Lorsque la législation permet d'imputer à titre de dépenses libératoires les dépenses restant dues à la fin de l'exercice, ces dernières sont comptabilisées au débit des comptes d'actif ou des comptes de charges concernés par le crédit des comptes de tiers intéressés.
Author: [hidden] (risto3)
Date: 2020-08-06.14:29:41
>So this quickly become impossible to understand the meaning of this issue. Title is no more accurate, comments are off-topics etc. I'm out.

Not at all off-topic, only that initially I included *all* supplier invoices relating to continued education and not *only* the OPCO invoices (designated organisation in charge of managing skills or aptitude operations relating to professional continued education) which I promptly corrected.

For completeness, the reciprocal part (reimbursement invoice to the OPCO when the company advances the payment directly to the organisation delivering the training) is a similar and most certainly related problem, thus its inclusion in order to avoid a'd solution...  

Naturally it is quite easy to ignore that French companies with personnel have accounting obligations involving these accounts, but doing so doesn't solve their Tryton problem when there is an invoice involved.
Author: [hidden] (risto3)
Date: 2020-08-06.11:14:35
BTW the case of direct payment by OPCO to the training organisation, there is no need to issue invoice as we are informed of the subrogated payment permitting a manual move to the reconcile the trainers invoice (in 401x) with the counterpart in 791x.

Only reimbursement requests to the OPCO need a real 'client' invoice (to 791x).
Author: [hidden] (risto3)
Date: 2020-08-06.11:10:29
changing title to indicate invoicing problems due to type restriction to/from OPCO...
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2020-08-06.11:07:08
So this quickly become impossible to understand the meaning of this issue. Title is no more accurate, comments are off-topics etc. I'm out.
Author: [hidden] (risto3)
Date: 2020-08-06.11:00:53
Furthering discussion, as to the counterpart ... we need to 'invoice' our OPCO, with VAT, for reimbursement which goes to 791x 
        <record model="account.account.template" id="791">
            <field name="name">Transferts de charges d'exploitation</field>
            <field name="code">791</field>
            <field name="type" ref="produits_exploitation_reprises_provisions_depreciations_amortissements_transferts_charges"/>
            <field name="parent" ref="79"/>
apparently this needs to be an account of type revenue in order to invoice (we created a subaccount 791001 of the same type)
Author: [hidden] (risto3)
Date: 2020-08-06.10:47:28
I'm changing the priority of this for now as it appears these particular invoices encountered should be put in 6228x as they will be paid back (or paid directly), at least partially by the OPCO.

Seems only the part reserved for the OPCO in 6333... bad procedure put in place by old accountant a number of years back.

NB there are still invoicing issued by the OPCO for the part in 6333 (as there is VAT) that should probably be dealt with (provisions are made via the DSN in the monthly declarations)... which is why I don't invalidate this issue at the moment.
Author: [hidden] (ced) Tryton committer Tryton translator
Date: 2020-08-06.10:36:35
For me, those accounts should not be used directly on the invoice but filled with a manual move because it is a tax account.
Author: [hidden] (risto3)
Date: 2020-08-06.10:20:10
BTW, I believe all of 633x is incorrect with respect to the 'type'.
Author: [hidden] (risto3)
Date: 2020-08-06.10:18:01
Can't enter supplier invoices to 6333:
        <record model="account.account.template" id="6333">
            <field name="name">Participation des employeurs à la formation professionnelle continue</field>
            <field name="code">6333</field>
            <field name="type" ref="impots_taxes"/>
            <field name="parent" ref="633"/>

as type `impots_taxes` does not have 'expenses' ticked 'true'.

This should be fixed, but to what? and quickly as VAT declaration is in a couple of weeks.
Date User Action Args
2020-11-24 17:23:22cedsetpriority: bug -> feature
2020-08-06 18:14:28risto3setpriority: wish -> bug
2020-08-06 15:01:26risto3setmessages: + msg59643
2020-08-06 14:29:42risto3setmessages: + msg59642
2020-08-06 11:21:03cedsetpriority: feature -> wish
2020-08-06 11:14:35risto3setmessages: + msg59639
2020-08-06 11:10:29risto3setmessages: + msg59638
title: can't enter invoice for continued education to 6333 (pcg français) -> can't enter invoice for continued education to 6333/791 (pcg français)
2020-08-06 11:07:14cedsetnosy: - ced
2020-08-06 11:07:08cedsetnosy: ced, risto3
messages: + msg59636
2020-08-06 11:00:53risto3setmessages: + msg59635

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